Автор: Васа›
« : 10/01/2003, 19:45:37 »В следущий раз учту
Новости:
В тестовом режиме открыт раздел сайта «Встречи»
Здесь больше нет рекламы. Но могла бы быть, могла.
Автор: Valandil›
« : 10/01/2003, 19:42:28 »Думаю, всё-таки в "Полигонных РИ". Подпись под названием форума гласит:
Цитата:
Обсуждение полигонных ролевых игр, исторической реконструкции и прочего, имеющего отношение к.
Думаю, под реконструкцию вполне покатит.
Цитата:
Обсуждение полигонных ролевых игр, исторической реконструкции и прочего, имеющего отношение к.
Думаю, под реконструкцию вполне покатит.
Автор: Васа›
« : 10/01/2003, 19:31:22 »А где?В "Философии "? 
Автор: Valandil›
« : 10/01/2003, 09:23:49 »Цитата:
2)В "Оружейной" или "Полигонных РИ" вряд ли место этой теме
Здесь по-моему, ей тоже не особо место.
Автор: Васа›
« : 09/01/2003, 22:06:53 »1)Ну я не настолько хорошо знаю английский 
2)В "Оружейной" или "Полигонных РИ" вряд ли место этой теме
2)В "Оружейной" или "Полигонных РИ" вряд ли место этой теме
Автор: Valandil›
« : 09/01/2003, 15:28:56 »1) Вот этот отрывок целиком:
Цитата:
tongue came to them and brought them many gifts of food and clothing for the journey. The food was mostly in the form of very thin cakes, made of a meal that was baked a light brown on the outside, and inside was the colour of cream. Gimli took up one of the cakes and looked at it with a doubtful eye.
`Cram,' he said under his breath, as he broke off a crisp corner and nibbled at it. His expression quickly changed, and he ate all the rest of the cake with relish.
`No more, no more!' cried the Elves laughing. `You have eaten enough already for a long day's march.'
`I thought it was only a kind of cram, such as the Dale-men make for journeys in the wild,' said the Dwarf.
`So it is,' they answered. `But we call it lembas or waybread, and it is more strengthening than any food made by Men, and it is more pleasant than cram, by all accounts.'
`Indeed it is,' said Gimli. 'Why it is better than the honey-cakes of the Beornings, and that is great praise, for the Beornings are the best bakers that I know of; but they are none too willing to deal out their cakes to travellers in these days. You are kindly hosts! '
'All the same, we bid you spare the food,' they said. 'Eat little at a time, and only at need. For these things are given to serve you when all else fails. The cakes will keep sweet for many many days, if they are unbroken and left in their leaf-wrappings, as we have brought them. One will keep a traveller on his feet for a day of long labour, even if he be one of the tall Men of Minas Tirith.'
Мне, кажется, перевод "торт" здесь не особо удачен. ИМХО, "лепёшка".
2) Тогда стоит открыть тред в "Полигонных РИ" или опять в "Оружейной комнате", поставив ссылку на этот тред - дальнейшее обсуждение уже выходит за рамки форума не только по букве, но и по духу.
Цитата:
tongue came to them and brought them many gifts of food and clothing for the journey. The food was mostly in the form of very thin cakes, made of a meal that was baked a light brown on the outside, and inside was the colour of cream. Gimli took up one of the cakes and looked at it with a doubtful eye.
`Cram,' he said under his breath, as he broke off a crisp corner and nibbled at it. His expression quickly changed, and he ate all the rest of the cake with relish.
`No more, no more!' cried the Elves laughing. `You have eaten enough already for a long day's march.'
`I thought it was only a kind of cram, such as the Dale-men make for journeys in the wild,' said the Dwarf.
`So it is,' they answered. `But we call it lembas or waybread, and it is more strengthening than any food made by Men, and it is more pleasant than cram, by all accounts.'
`Indeed it is,' said Gimli. 'Why it is better than the honey-cakes of the Beornings, and that is great praise, for the Beornings are the best bakers that I know of; but they are none too willing to deal out their cakes to travellers in these days. You are kindly hosts! '
'All the same, we bid you spare the food,' they said. 'Eat little at a time, and only at need. For these things are given to serve you when all else fails. The cakes will keep sweet for many many days, if they are unbroken and left in their leaf-wrappings, as we have brought them. One will keep a traveller on his feet for a day of long labour, even if he be one of the tall Men of Minas Tirith.'
Мне, кажется, перевод "торт" здесь не особо удачен. ИМХО, "лепёшка".
2) Тогда стоит открыть тред в "Полигонных РИ" или опять в "Оружейной комнате", поставив ссылку на этот тред - дальнейшее обсуждение уже выходит за рамки форума не только по букве, но и по духу.
Автор: Васа›
« : 08/01/2003, 22:21:50 »1)"Еда была в основном в виде очень тонких лепешек,снизу коричневых,а сверху цвета крема.Гимли взял одну лепешку и с сомнением посмотрел на нее.
-Хлеб....
....Он вкуснее медовых тортов беорнингов,а это очень высокая похвала...."
2)Скорее,попытка реконструирования.несмотря даже на то,что это невозможно
-Хлеб....
....Он вкуснее медовых тортов беорнингов,а это очень высокая похвала...."
2)Скорее,попытка реконструирования.несмотря даже на то,что это невозможно
Автор: Valandil›
« : 07/01/2003, 22:42:04 »Во-первых, ссылка не грузится. Во-вторых, я не совсем понял, что именно надо автору вопроса. Упоминания о лембас в текстах Толкина? Или попытка реконструировать способ приготовления? Согласно Письму №210, это невозможно.
Автор: Васа›
« : 07/01/2003, 22:27:17 »http://libwond.by.ru/Detskaya/Tolkien_R/Hranitely.htm
Упоминание ближе к концу
Ничего больше пока не нашла...
Упоминание ближе к концу
Ничего больше пока не нашла...
Автор: Valandil›
« : 05/01/2003, 21:33:17 »Это, конечно, здорово... но при чём тут Толкин?
Автор: Valandil›
« : 02/01/2003, 16:17:49 »Хм. Здесь приведена ссылка на текст "О лембас". Забивать сюда весь текст не представляется возможным.
Вот цитаты из "Сильмариллиона":
Цитата:
'Another gift I will give to you, Cuthalion,' said Melian, 'that shall be your help in the wild, and the help also of those whom you choose.' And she gave him store of lembas, the waybread of the Elves, wrapped in leaves of silver, and the threads that bound it were sealed at the knots with the seal of the Queen, a wafer of white wax shaped as a single flower of Telperion; for according to the customs of the Eldaliё the keeping and giving of lembas belonged to the Queen alone. In nothing did Melian show greater favour to Túrin than in this gift; for the Eldar had never before allowed Men to use this waybread, and seldom did so again.
Цитата:
Those that were hurt or sick he tended, and gave to them the lembas of Melian; and they were quickly healed, for though the Grey-elves were less in skill and knowledge than the Exiles from Valinor, in the ways of the life of Middle-earth they had a wisdom beyond the reach of Men.
А вот главная цитата - из 210 письма:
Цитата:
Lembas, 'waybread', is called a 'food concentrate'. As I have shown I dislike strongly any pulling of my tale towards the style and feature of 'contes des fees', or French fairy-stories. I dislike equally any pull towards 'scientification', of which this expression is an example. Both modes are alien to my story.
We are not exploring the Moon or any other more improbable region. No analysis in any laboratory would discover chemical properties of lembas that made it superior to other cakes of wheat-meal.
I only comment on the expression here as an indication of attitude. It is no doubt casual; and nothing of this kind or style will (I hope) escape into the actual dialogue.
In the book lembas has two functions. It is a 'machine' or device for making credible the long marches with little provision, in a world in which as I have said 'miles are miles'. But that is relatively unimportant. It also has a much larger significance, of what one might hesitatingly call a 'religious' kind. This becomes later apparent, especially in the chapter 'Mount Doom' (III 2135 and subsequently). I cannot find that Z has made any particular use of lembas even as a device; and the whole of 'Mount Doom' has disappeared in the distorted confusion that Z has made of the ending. As far as I can see lembas might as well disappear altogether.
То есть
Цитата:
лембас
делался из пшеничной муки, но было что-то такое, что отличало его от других дорожных хлебцев, и определить это "что-то" не сможет ни одна химическая экспертиза.
Ответ на вопрос получен?
Вот цитаты из "Сильмариллиона":
Цитата:
'Another gift I will give to you, Cuthalion,' said Melian, 'that shall be your help in the wild, and the help also of those whom you choose.' And she gave him store of lembas, the waybread of the Elves, wrapped in leaves of silver, and the threads that bound it were sealed at the knots with the seal of the Queen, a wafer of white wax shaped as a single flower of Telperion; for according to the customs of the Eldaliё the keeping and giving of lembas belonged to the Queen alone. In nothing did Melian show greater favour to Túrin than in this gift; for the Eldar had never before allowed Men to use this waybread, and seldom did so again.
Цитата:
Those that were hurt or sick he tended, and gave to them the lembas of Melian; and they were quickly healed, for though the Grey-elves were less in skill and knowledge than the Exiles from Valinor, in the ways of the life of Middle-earth they had a wisdom beyond the reach of Men.
А вот главная цитата - из 210 письма:
Цитата:
Lembas, 'waybread', is called a 'food concentrate'. As I have shown I dislike strongly any pulling of my tale towards the style and feature of 'contes des fees', or French fairy-stories. I dislike equally any pull towards 'scientification', of which this expression is an example. Both modes are alien to my story.
We are not exploring the Moon or any other more improbable region. No analysis in any laboratory would discover chemical properties of lembas that made it superior to other cakes of wheat-meal.
I only comment on the expression here as an indication of attitude. It is no doubt casual; and nothing of this kind or style will (I hope) escape into the actual dialogue.
In the book lembas has two functions. It is a 'machine' or device for making credible the long marches with little provision, in a world in which as I have said 'miles are miles'. But that is relatively unimportant. It also has a much larger significance, of what one might hesitatingly call a 'religious' kind. This becomes later apparent, especially in the chapter 'Mount Doom' (III 2135 and subsequently). I cannot find that Z has made any particular use of lembas even as a device; and the whole of 'Mount Doom' has disappeared in the distorted confusion that Z has made of the ending. As far as I can see lembas might as well disappear altogether.
То есть
Цитата:
лембас
делался из пшеничной муки, но было что-то такое, что отличало его от других дорожных хлебцев, и определить это "что-то" не сможет ни одна химическая экспертиза.
Ответ на вопрос получен?
Автор: Арвинд›
« : 01/01/2003, 14:05:12 »Цитата из: Васа on 01-01-2003, 00:01:45
тема,похоже,себя исчерпала...
Нет! Здесь не привели цитат самого Профессора. А он, как мне помнится, освещал этот вопрос. Подождем, пока эти разъяснения найдутся...
Автор: Васа›
« : 01/01/2003, 00:01:45 »Это точно.И тема,похоже,себя исчерпала...
Автор: Valandil›
« : 31/12/2002, 19:07:24 »Так это же эльфы делали! К тому же не сказано, из какого именно злака делался лембас.
К тому же не сказано, из какого именно злака делался лембас.